Govenor Fife Symington appeared on Larry King Live on Friday, July 13, 2007, during a discussion of UFOs, including the Phoenix Lights incident.
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, was a UFO buzzing around the historic Apollo 11 moon mission?
Astronaut Buzz Aldrin tells us what he thinks he saw.
Arizona's former governor once dismissed the Phoenix lights that stunned hundreds of eyewitnesses 10 years ago. He'll explain why he now says they could not have been military flares.
Plus, the stories behind the close encounters former Presidents Jerry Ford and Jimmy Carter allegedly had.
And a return to Roswell, New Mexico, where the UFO controversy began 60 years ago with the man who says his father showed him debris from an alien spacecraft.
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CNN Larry King Live: Are UFOs Real?
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It's a topic that won't go away -- 60 years ago, July 1947, the small town of Roswell, New Mexico went from obscurity to global renown after reports that UFO had crashed there.
Today, people who suggest the possibility that life exists in other galaxies look to Roswell as a modern event that seems to back up the theories.
We welcome Dr. Jesse Marcel, Jr. here in Los Angeles. He was shown UFO debris by his father, Major Jesse Marcel. He's author of "The Roswell Legacy."
Stanton Friedman, one of the foremost experts on Roswell and UFOs.
And in Roswell, New Mexico is Julie Shuster, executive director of the International UFO Museum and Research Center at Roswell. Julie's father, Walter Haut, was the public information officer at Roswell Air Base. He put out the press release about the UFO.
Dr. Marcel, tell us about your dad.
DR. JESSE MARCEL, JR. WAS SHOWN UFO DEBRIS BY HIS FATHER, MAJOR JESSE MARCEL; AUTHOR OF "THE ROSWELL LEGACY": Well, he was the base intelligence officer for the 509th Bomb Group, which is the bomb group that dropped the atomic bomb on Japan that won the war for us.
KING: They were based at Roswell?
MARCEL: They were based at Roswell, at Roswell Army Air Field.
And as the intelligence officer, his job was to investigate unusual events. And a rancher found some strange debris on his ranch land some miles northwest of Roswell. He called the sheriff and brought some to the sheriff. The sheriff didn't know what this was. So the sheriff then called the base commander, Colonel Blanchard, to look into this. And since my dad was the intelligence officer, he sent he and a CIC agent out to the ranch -- CIC was a forerunner of the CIA at that time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Counter Intelligence Corps.
MARCEL: Counter Intelligence Corps.
And when my dad got out there, he found a large area of strange looking debris. This was not remains of a weather balloon or a radar tordid (ph), because the rancher found those before. So this is totally different from that.
So in order to determine what this was, he picked up a certain representative portion of the debris, brought it in to Roswell. Now, it just so happens our house was on the way to Roswell, to the base there. So even though it's late at night, maybe 1:00 in the morning, he came in, woke my mother and myself up.
KING: You were a kid?
MARCEL: I was a kid. Eleven years old at that time. And he will already spread some debris out on the kitchen floor.
And he says, "Look at this. I think this is parts of a flying saucer," or words to that effect. And being a child, I was not quite sure what a flying saucer was, but he was so excited I thought, well, you know, I'd better look at this.
So, he says look for --
KING: He was a major?
MARCEL: He was a major at that time.
And he said, "Look at this. There's (INAUDIBLE) electronic components like vacuum tubes and resistors. It wasn't anything like that at all. But it was strange. There was foil. There was --
KING: So what eventually happened?
Did he --
MARCEL: OK.
What he did, he -- we looked at this for a period of time, then he gathered it had back up and then brought it back to the air base that night. And constituently he flew us to General Ramey's office in Fort Worth. And when he came home later, he told my mother and myself never talk about this again, that it was a non-event, don't talk about it, period.
STANTON FRIEDMAN, LEADING EXPERT ON UFOS AND ROSWELL INCIDENT: General Ramey was head of the 8th Air Force and Jesse reported to his boss, Colonel Blanchard. He reported to General Ramey.
KING: And this proceeded to lead to a cover-up, in your opinion?
FREIDMAN: There's no question because General Ramey's --
KING: A cover-up of what?
FREIDMAN: Well, OK. Interesting question. I think alien spacecraft. And they put phony wreckage out. This is General Ramey. And here's his chief of staff --
KING: I want to show this.
FREIDMAN: -- Thomas Jefferson Dubose -- and I managed to locate General Dubose, by this time a retired general, mind you, many years later. And he told me that he took a call from Ramey's boss in Washington telling him, "Get the press off our back. I don't care how you do it. Send some of that wreckage up here today."
There's a great headline, Larry.
KING: That's a great headline.
FREIDMAN: He said, "Send some of that wreckage up here today with one of your colonel couriers and I don't want you to ever talk about it again, not even with your buddy, Roger Ramey. That's an order. Do I need to put it in writing?"
No, sir.
KING: I've done so many shows on this --
FREIDMAN: I know.
KING: -- over the years, as you know. We went out in UFO territory in Nevada.
Where was that?
Fifty-one, Area 51.
FREIDMAN: Yes, near Rachel, Nevada.
KING: And what has never been answered is why cover it up?
FREIDMAN: On my Web site --
KING: OK, let's say there's life in outer space.
FREIDMAN: That isn't the question -- KING: And let's say they came here. OK.
FREIDMAN: That isn't the question --
KING: Did they -- were they out to destroy us, what?
FREIDMAN: I have a paper on my Web site called "The UFO Why Questions," and that's the biggest one -- why the cover-up?
I give six reasons. You want to figure out how to work, they make wonderful delivery and defense systems. You've got wreckage. Rule number one for security -- I worked under security for 14 years, Larry -- is you can't tell your friends without telling your enemies. They listen to you, too, after all.
KING: So you're still working on this 40 years later?
You're still working on?
FREIDMAN: yes, believe it or not.
KING: All right, Julie --
FREIDMAN: (INAUDIBLE) --
KING: Hold on.
Julie Shuster is the executive director of the International UFO.
Your father was -- and a famous name, Walter Haut -- he was public information officer.
Was he asked to cover it up, too?
JULIE SHUSTER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL UFO MUSEUM AT ROSWELL: My father all along said that he issued the press release. And when he asked to see the debris, he said no.
He -- as far as the cover-up, part of -- being part of the cover- up, no, to my knowledge he was not.
KING: What did the press release say?
SHUSTER: The press release basically said -- and using his words, because I've heard it many, many times -- was we have in our possession a flying saucer. It's being flown to higher headquarters in Fort Worth. And his biggest regret on that press release was using the words "it's being flown to higher headquarters," because the media called from around the world saying how did they know how to fly it?
And he had to explain it was being put on aircraft.
and then he would, you know, that was his biggest thing. And he said -- but he would also add, but it was not of this Earth.
So that was basically his story. KING: That was the release
What did your father believe?
SHUSTER: My father believed it was not of this Earth. It was not a craft of ours. It was something unknown. And he used the words "not of this Earth." He was very emphatic about that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He told me that, too.
KING: Do you know why we have not heard of it -- or what's your guess, Jesse in, a long time?
MARCEL: Well, I'm not sure why we haven't heard about it because I think the American public is well enough informed about space to know about this, that they deserve to know that there's another life out there, that we're not the only ones. Because if we are, there's an awful lot of wasted space out there.
KING: We'll take a break and be back with more.
Our full show tonight devoted to UFOs.
We have a skeptic, as well. He'll be with us.
Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The strange wreckage that Brasile discovered spanned an area 300 yards wide by a mile long. That parcel of land, known to investigators as the debris field, is where some believe an extraterrestrial craft blew apart and fell to Earth.
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Disclosure - Governor Fife Symington
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COL. JOHN HAYNES, U.S. AIR FORCE: Over a period of time, dummies were dropped all around there. And I think it's logical to assume that the people there saw Air Force ambulances come out. They saw gurneys come out. They saw body bags come out because the dummies were put into the body bags to protect them. They saw people in pith helmets. They saw people in shorts out there brushing the bushes, looking for the remnants of the balloons.
And when you put all that stuff together and spin it, you find that it fits perfectly with many of the occurrences in Roswell during that era.
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KING: Remaining with us, Dr. Jesse Marcel, Jr. Stanton Friedman and Julie Shuster. By the way, Dr. Marcel wrote "The Roswell Legacy."
The forward was written by Stanton Friedman.
Joining us now, Michael Shermer, the publisher of "Skeptic" magazine. "Skeptic" did a whole issue, or a major part of an issue, on Roswell a couple of years back.
And James Fox, filmmaker, executive producer of the feature length documentary, "Out of the Blue: The Definitive Investigation of the UFO Phenomenon." That documentary is narrated by our good friend, Peter Coyote and was just released on DVD.
Is that the one where -- in which Presidents Carter and Ford discuss their sightings?
JAMES FOX, FILMMAKER WHO EXECUTIVE PRODUCED THE AWARD-WINNING, FEATURE-LENGTH DOCUMENTARY OUT OF THE BLUE: THE DEFINITIVE INVESTIGATION OF THE UFO PHENOMENON: Yes.
KING: What do they say?
FOX: Jimmy Carter said he actually saw a UFO and he describes -- he was with, I think, 10 witnesses and --
KING: He was on a plane, right?
FOX: No, he was actually standing outside in Georgia, I believe. And that was when he was a Congressman. And he said it just shot off --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was governor.
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FOX: Governor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was governor.
FOX: Governor. I'm so sorry. Excuse me. He was governor. And it shot off at a high rate of speed and disappeared.
KING: And Ford?
FOX: Ford was involved -- it was a very major sighting. It was the equivalent sighting that happened over at the State of Arizona that has actually happened over in Chicago, what was it, 1966, Stanton Friedman?
FREIDMAN: I'm not sure.
FOX: I think it was 1966. But the Air Force came forward with some swamp gas explanation and Ford --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was Michigan.
FOX: -- pushed for -- Michigan, yes. Ford pushed for Congressional hearings and he admitted that on (INAUDIBLE) -- KING: And that's out in DVD now, right?
FOX: yes.
CNN
Transcript
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
Are UFOs Real?
Arizona's former governor once dismissed the Phoenix lights that stunned hundreds of eyewitnesses 10 years ago. He'll explain why he now says they could not have been military flares.
Aired July 13, 2007 - 21:00 ET
On the Net:
Governor Fife Symington - http://www.fifesymington.com/
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